Interview with Gerri Martin-Flickinger, CIO of Adobe

Coco: Congratulations on your recent appointment to Adobe. How does it feel to be the CIO of one of the most successful bay area companies and one of the world’s largest software companies?

Gerri: It is really exciting being in a company like Adobe because it has a wonderful mix of mature process, professionalism and solid product line, but at the same time, it still has that high-tech edge. I wake up in the morning very energized!

Coco: When you were growing up did you imagine yourself in a position of Information Technology leadership?

Gerri: From the day I was born! Seriously, very early in my career I developed a passion for leadership and technology. When I was a junior in college I got the opportunity to teach an assembly language programming course. As soon as I got in front of a group of kids trying to learn about computer technology it became really clear to me that leadership was much more powerful then knowing how to code. Another formative experience for me was a summer job I had throughout college. I was living in Washington State where lumber and logging is a huge industry and I worked in a log yard building inventory programs. The great challenge was dealing with the translation of the fuzzy logic of the yard into the structure of a program. For example, on the log yard the piles were counted by “eyeballing” them for count, weight, species and grade of wood. I learned that I really loved the IT industry and the idea of using computers to solve business problems. I began to understand that what excited me was the opportunity to take technology and use it to move a business forward.

Coco: Tell us about where you went after college and how you got to where you are today.

Gerri: My first real job was at Chevron Corporation. I was there for 12 years starting as a systems analyst. I had a great experience at Chevron; loved the processes; loved the sense of family, and learned a lot about technology enablement of the business. I moved through the ranks continuing to pursue my interests in greater roles of leadership. After Chevron, I wanted to get into high-tech so I became the first CIO for McAfee, and helped McAfee grow into Network Associates. Then I took some time out to have a family before taking further CIO roles first with Verisign, and now Adobe.

Coco: Have you had many role models over the years that have helped guide and support you?

Gerri: I don’t tend to seek out role models. It’s more valuable to me to experience something and then talk to somebody and say “was this your experience and how did you deal with this situation?” I find myself learning through experience more than looking to what someone else has done.

Coco: Do women operate differently in leadership than men?

Gerri: Absolutely! In fact, several executive women and I were talking a number of years back about this very topic. One key difference we recognized is in how women react to conflict relative to men. Our male counterparts seem much more comfortable with leaving conflict in the room and with the outcome of a winner and a loser. Women on the other hand take the conflict with them outside the room, become introspective and concerned about the emotional dynamic and the win/loss aspects; we tend to look more for balance and harmony, perhaps more so than for winning or losing on a specific position or idea. Women also remember the conflicts and the dynamics and it influences how we go into the next conflict, the next dialogue, the next negotiation. It seems men can compartmentalize these interactions in a way that women just can’t.

Coco: Do you think this is a detriment to women?

Gerri: No. I just think it’s an interesting dichotomy. I think if I respect it and see it happening, it helps me have an intense discussion with a male colleague and not take it personally. Obviously this is a very broad generalization, but I do think it’s helpful.

Coco: Do you think that the growing number of women in IT leadership is having an impact on the way IT is perceived by “the business”?

Gerri: I think women tend to be more relationship management centric. In some cases this is driving IT to become more of a partnership oriented organization with the business, as opposed to a delivery agent for projects and technology. I think this may be the legacy that we’ll end up leaving over time.

Coco: You mentioned taking time off to have your children. Motherhood presents a real challenge to the career oriented and successful woman? How do you balance being a mother with the obvious demands of your job?

Gerri: Fortunately, I have a fabulous husband who helps fill in all the areas where I am challenged to be there. I don’t think there is a great answer: there’s no magic formula, no secret handbook and every day has its challenges. Thinking I have things under control might last a week or two but then something happens; the nanny quits, the kids start day camp, a grandmother comes to visit -- anything that disrupts the normal pattern of life makes balancing a challenge. The same is true of the unexpected work emergencies that inevitably come up. I think one has to try to set some limits. For example, there are going to be times where I may need to work weekends but it is not going to be every weekend; I reserve working on weekends for very specific activities that I can’t step away from and that are business critical. I also try to limit travel. I am very selective about when I travel and how long I travel.

Coco: How do you think motherhood affects women’s decisions about career these days and the challenges they face in their careers?

Gerri: I know through talking to other executive women over the last 20 years that the choice to have children affects women’s career paths in a way that is very hard to describe to those who are not mothers. The optimal years to have kids is often between 25 and 35 and that also happens to be where you see your most dramatic career growth. By the time you hit your early 30s, you have identified your potential and your superiors are ready to move you along quickly into roles of increasing responsibility. If you need to take 3 to 5 years out of your career to start a family because as you know, that’s a really huge job in itself, that’s going to affect your career timeline. And, for many women these days taking time out is not an option; they need the dual income. I think that’s the fundamental challenge that women have to deal with and I don’t have a good answer for that. The way I addressed this challenge was to establish my career at the level I wanted it and then took time out to start my family; again this definitely won’t work for everyone and it’s not without its risks.

Coco: How do you see opportunities changing or evolving for women in IT?

Gerri: To be candid, I don’t know if I see things evolving right now. I don’t see much in terms of flexible schedules, and I see the intensity of IT jobs only escalating across the globe. In a lot of ways IT jobs have become less family friendly. Almost any exempt position these days requires between 50 – 60 hours a week not 40, particularly in high-tech. Over time from more of a societal viewpoint, we are going to have to deal with this. Without more flexibility in how we work and with the requirement of long work hours, we are going to be really challenged to raise our next generation of children. My gut tells me that we can’t keep running at these speeds, but I don’t have any great answer.

Coco: One of the trends that I’ve noticed (and you alluded to it) is that women in leadership positions increasingly have spouses who share equally or more so in the traditional female roles of parenting.

Gerri: Yes, it’s the reverse of the 1950s phrase, “behind every successful man is a woman”. Behind every successful woman is some amazing man. I think it’s very true; my husband cut back his career significantly so that he could be with the girls two days a week. The structure is different than in the past and roles are more fluid; they may even change year to year.

Coco: What advice would you give young women thinking of entering a career in IT?

Gerri: This is a hard one. I think the challenge will continue to be what I faced myself, which is trying to figure out your “life map” and goals early on. If career as well as motherhood are both very important to you at the core, then you need to figure out how to make the rest of your life decisions support that. Maybe that is having kids younger, maybe it’s having kids older, and maybe it’s figuring out how your care structure is going to work. Further, if you are going to take a path which is going to involve a lot of international work, which is pretty much a requirement nowadays in senior roles, you want to think about how that affects your plans for motherhood. I think increasingly men need to think about this too as the “traditional” family roles become more blurred and complex.

Further, if it is leadership you strive to pursue, give yourself room to change your mind; about your career choice, that is. Many people get into management and decide it’s not for them. That’s ok. You want to wake up in the morning excited. I think sometimes we get too hung up on title and position. But at the end of the day you need to wake up every morning and be excited about what you have to do that day, and if that isn’t what you are doing then you need to regroup and find something else to do. The aggressive career path I have chosen is not without its challenges, but I made my choices thoughtfully and I’m very happy with the outcome overall.